Comments: Why Vladimir Putin’s People Love Him [Bumped]
If one Ukrainian artillery crew had just motored down to the water's edge, and put a gaper in the side of a Russian capitol ship in Sevastapol, everything would look completely different right now. War? You say this would cause a war? F------k: what do we have now but the doorstep of a world conflict with Putin on top. If they'd a listened to me, Putin would be frog marching the gulag 2 step with shame. I also said: one tank battalion from Ukraine, rolling into Russia and flaming Stalingrad (or whatever it is now) would be a problem solved.
Posted by Casey Klahn at April 16, 2016 11:20 AM
Perhaps, but without the will the tank battalion is nothing.
Posted by Van der Leun at April 16, 2016 12:10 PM
The man from New York and the man from St. Petersburg share many characteristics, three of which are:
•They are both non ideological. That is to say: they both tend to be pragmatic.
•They are both interested in nation building. They are both patriots but I don't see either one as chauvinistic or xenophobic.
•They both believe in wealth creation as a means to power, both personally and nationalistically. I would call both of them non-dogmatic capitalists.
Modern Russia, for all of its faults, is struggling to distance itself from the old Soviet way of thinking. American foreign policy, too, needs to re-evaluate the new Russia. There are still old cold warriors at State. If Trump succeeds in getting elected he will be, I believe, the first truly post-Soviet president. In order to put this new way of thinking into practice he will need to clean out the old cold warriors. This will not be easy.
I have not mentioned China. China and Russia are getting very friendly but they are not natural allies. It is Russia and the U.S. that have the same western philosophical roots. It is Russia and the U.S. that are the natural allies. It does not need to be explained why, both theoretically and practically, a U.S./Russia political alliance is in everyone's best interests. This alliance need not be antagonistic toward China. Cordial relations between U.S., Russia, and Chinese are more than possible if due regard to their respective spheres of influence is paid.
Posted by michaelx at April 16, 2016 7:05 PM
Mike, your wordy support of Russia is disconcertingly weak-minded, not to mention appeasing on the cusp of World War III. I don't know either man, but I have been to both of the cities you mention. They are so different. New York is a big, crowded place full of people making money. Some do it better than others, but capitol oozes from its pores like honey from a tree. They also love big, big taxes. They tax your thoughts, they're so liberal. St Petersburg is big place with almost no people walking around. No dogs. No cats. It gave me the feel of a post apocalyptic movie set. If stories I heard are believable, there is murderous poverty and misery. A great world city, to be sure. But, it sucked as far as I was concerned.
Cold War? Give me a break. I'm talking about today. Russia has sewn a ring around Turkey. Get out your map. Putin is a revanchist (and I'm smugly pleased to get to use that word in perfect context). He has invaded Europe - perhaps that's fine with you.
Man up.
Posted by Casey Klahn at April 16, 2016 8:51 PM
Casey: I will let Karl Popper answer for me:
It is impossible to speak in such a way that you cannot be misunderstood (one of Gerard's favorites)
and,
No rational argument will have a rational effect on a man who does not want to adopt a rational attitude.
Posted by michaelx at April 16, 2016 10:35 PM
Most of his Russian detractors have died under mysterious circumstances.
Good to be the King.
Posted by bradoplata at April 16, 2016 11:17 PM
Bottom line: Putin quietly takes care of business; Trump loudly takes care of Trump.
Posted by BillH at April 17, 2016 6:58 AM
I was surprised to find Putin is 5'-7" tall, I thought he was taller. He has grown less thuggish in appearance as he ages.
Posted by ghostsniper at April 17, 2016 9:17 AM
Michael, I purposely do not argue your bullet points for much the same reason you give. One cannot argue with ignorance.
I will offer you Tolstoy: "You may not be interested in war, but war is interested in you. "
Best of luck.
Posted by Casey Klahn at April 17, 2016 11:46 AM
When this presumed war gets close to my timezone let me know as we are already bristling with firepower for the war that is closer at hand, and you should consider doing as any good infantry lt would do and that is to prioritize your perils.
putin, inc. is so far down on my priority scale as to be nonexistent srsly
Posted by ghostsniper at April 17, 2016 2:44 PM
What sort of barking mad psychopath wants a war with Russia, a country that presents no threat to the US?
Posted by bilejones at April 17, 2016 3:44 PM
Defense=War. Double-plus good. You so smart.
ESAD. I read history and you just dream mush, bile.
We went through all of this with Reagan, already. To read logic on this thread would be a breath of fresh air.
Posted by Casey Klahn at April 17, 2016 4:44 PM
You disappoint me sometimes.
You need a lesson in threat priority.
Posted by ghostsniper at April 18, 2016 4:48 AM
Ghost:
ISIS is the jackal, but Russia, the Bear. Nuked-up Bear, that is.
And, the squeaky wheel is squeaking'...
Don't make me diatribe about momentum, inertia and The Objective. I trust the readers here to know about this stuff.
The Crimean War, BTW, started with a handful of ships bought by Russia and innocuously floated on the water. God help me, I miss the 19th Century so...
Posted by Casey Klahn at April 18, 2016 10:25 AM
It's none of my business, besides, I have more dangerous things to keep ahold of my focus, and so do you but for reasons beyond my comprehension you prefer to gaze at distant specters. whatevah......
Posted by ghostsniper at April 18, 2016 1:00 PM
The Russian people loved Stalin, too.
Putin saved Russia? Putin has brought Russia to the brink of general war and near economic ruin.
He spends unstintingly on rebuilding Russia's war machine while it's universal healthcare system goes wanting for rubles and people die for lack of medical care.
Just over a year ago Boris Nemtsov was murdered in broad daylight right outside the Kremlin wall.
He was going to tell the Russian people the truth about their army fighting in Ukraine and that there were mobile crematoriums in Ukraine burning the bodies of dead Russian soldiers to keep the truth from the Russian people.
Posted by Speller at April 19, 2016 1:10 AM
Refer to the topic of this thread, re: Putin's stature.
Recall the Crimean War (One), which had not a sliver of the provocation now available for a war around the Black Sea. Never mind the ethnic and religious chaff, the precipitant cause of the CW I was Russians floating better ships on the Black Sea. Now, we have a veiled invasion of a European country, the annexation of the Crimean Peninsula, deployment of Russians in Syria, the invasion of Georgia.
The longer you put off the war, the worse it gets. Think of cancer.
You know what? Fuck it. let Russia have anything it wants. We have Mexicans to take care of. Will the last guy in the bunker door please turn out the lights?
Posted by Casey Klahn at April 19, 2016 7:52 AM
Do you believe american taxpayers should fund the american politicians to be the planets police force?
Posted by ghostsniper at April 20, 2016 4:51 AM
Who is the greater foe, Putin or Obama? To me, it's no contest. The destruction of America consumes Obama, Putin it amuses. Why would he resists twisting Obama's tits when they have been offered, and all his like minded white men of the West? The West is getting exactly what it deserves, and by no means all of it yet.
Posted by james wilson at April 20, 2016 11:26 AM
Obama is Russia's man. His parents, card carrying communists, met at the University of Hawaii while studying the Russian language in 1960, at the height of the Cold War.
Putin is Kevorkian, Obama is his thanatron,
America is suicidal.
Posted by Speller at April 20, 2016 12:49 PM
In a great world, we could send the army after Obama. But, that's science fiction.
This just in: we are retooling North Atlantic submarine pens that were mothballed after the Cold War. Can we afford those? Who the hell cares? Might be some Mexicans swimming the North Atlantic, you never know.
Meeting NATO obligations, such as they are, is not being the planet's policeman. BTW, on that topic, I dig Trump's idea of charging these vagrant nations for their defense. That would be sweet to see them forced to face the facts that we pay and defend what they are unwilling to do for themselves. I get that; Trump wants to knife them in the ribs for it. So do I.
Meanwhile, if your idea of a trading partner is a Russian-version of Europe, I believe there is a medication for that. I think defending Europe is a must do. The world is a way smaller place than it was in 1939. Way smaller.
I'm planning for the post-Obama America. Maybe I need that med, too.
Posted by Casey Klahn at April 20, 2016 3:51 PM
Defending Europe against itself and for free is exactly why Europe is what it is. Which is the EU. Now after all this, your plan is to....defend Europe? Sending an army after Obama is not the only science fiction present out there.
Posted by james wilson at April 21, 2016 11:02 AM
I almost died in europe, defending it.
Now I only defend me.
Everybody else gets to do the same.
Don't know how?
Stop reading this shit and go learn.
Nothing breeds confidence like success.
Posted by ghostsniper at April 21, 2016 11:59 AM
Why I will never be a rock ribbed conservative. The hard right in its isolationist glory. Again, you gotta go watch High Noon. If you don't stand your ground (like it or not, your ground is Europe; as a matter of fact, the Pacific and the Atlantic are your ground. So is Central America and the Western hemisphere. So is the Arctic), the bad guys will follow you to the next town. ad infinitum.
I know it's another movie analogy, but analogies mean things: John Wayne is hitting some cowboys, and hits the last one. The hit man pleads, "I didn't do anything!" Wayne replies, "well, you should have!"
The US is a world power. Skip out on that, and who fills the void? Obama much?
Posted by Casey Klahn at April 21, 2016 2:18 PM
Being stuck on stupid is a condition I have often been guilty of in the past. I only left this particular stupid a few years ago; shame on me. America is hollowed out. Morally, economically, militarily. Fighting a bad guy for the benefit of the ungrateful one more time is a plan that could not be improved upon by our enemies. And who will lead this plan of your dreams? Hillary, and worse. Don't just do something, stand there.
Posted by james wilson at April 21, 2016 8:34 PM
As it has been and absolute failure in everything it has ever involved itself, I don't understand how you can sanction this rotten assed gov't to do anything at all.
As james said, Don't just do something, stand there.
Posted by ghostsniper at April 22, 2016 4:32 AM
I agree. We suck insanely much. Look at Obama in the UK in the news today. What an asshat!
Still out here in America. Still a big country. Still strong and viable. Still angry at Russia. And China, too. Hey! At least I've forgiven Germany. Italy and Japan. See how magnanimous I am?
See you in the trenches. men.
Posted by Casey Klahn at April 22, 2016 7:34 AM
There ya go with that *we* stuff again, this time in response to obammy.
I ain't like them (and don't think you are either) and never will be, IOW, I ain't a we.
I'm just me.
When the bad guys, regardless of flavor, come for me I'll be ready for them, in fact, we stay ready out here in the sticks, and in this instance *we* means all of my like minded neighbors.
Think local in all things, and laugh at everything else, but be ready to kill in a seconds notice.
Posted by ghostsniper at April 22, 2016 2:40 PM