Memo from Israel to Palestine

That'd get someone's attention!

Posted by Solomon at August 22, 2003 6:22 PM

Good idea, but, um... how to implement it... You need a strong leader and Shaorn is getting a little old and, dare I say, wobbly... wait a minute... I know just the guy... I never bought any of that anti-Semitism about him anyway and, let's face it, he's too big to be contained in a mere Governorship.... Arnold for Prime Minister of Israel! He'd know how take care of them Tearyourwrists!

Posted by Roger L. Simon at August 22, 2003 7:45 PM

Finish the fence. It's expensive but it's time to fence them off and wait for another generation. The settlements will have to go and the Palestinians cannot continue to be your version of the illegal immigrants in California, but enough is enough.

Mike Kennedy

Posted by Michael Kennedy at August 22, 2003 9:53 PM

Imagine if Judge Judy had been PM these past few years. I think not only would the palis pack up and run, but the rest of the arab world would think twice before even coming near the well defined borders.

Posted by Teacake at August 22, 2003 9:54 PM

Oh my is this wonderful!! Bravo!!

If only Israel would take its own citizens safety as seriously as it seems to value its reputation.

I sincerely hope this type thinking would take hold among Israel's leadership.

Posted by Nekama at August 22, 2003 9:55 PM

This is outstanding! Mail it immediately.

Posted by zulubaby at August 22, 2003 9:56 PM

Just. Beautiful.

Posted by mommydoc at August 22, 2003 10:01 PM

Priceless.

Posted by Ransom Danegeld at August 22, 2003 10:15 PM

"Remember, in the final analysis, we are a people with no little experience in genocide."

So sad and ironic that this site and the people who view it would fit so nicely with nazi Germany.

Posted by Jim at August 22, 2003 11:30 PM

a

Posted by Jim at August 22, 2003 11:31 PM

Yes Jim, we all remember the cruel persecution of the Nazis by the Jews that forced them to commit the holocaust. Jewish suicide bombers slaughtering German citizens in the streets, the three wars against Germany's existence launched by the Jews from the massive neigboring Jewish states against tiny Germany...

It's amazing how history repeats itself, isn't it you fucking moron?

Posted by Amos at August 23, 2003 12:14 AM

It's about time Israel dropped a number like this on the Palestinians' heads -- and then acted on it. Washington might protest the starkness of it, but in the end the Bush Administration, at least, would acquiesce.

Sometimes one's only choices reduce to victory or death. Such a time is here for Israel. If it is to survive, it must regard its interface with the Palestinian irredentists as a battle zone, and conduct itself accordingly.

"As ye sow, so shall ye reap," right?

Posted by Francis W. Porretto at August 23, 2003 3:44 AM

Can one actually get GWB to read this?
Maybe that "in" genocide should have read "of" genocide?
While we are on the subject ; I hope you Americans are aware that it is the Saudis who from the 70's have spent billions if not trillions of greenbacks getting to influence Washington and spread their religion throughout the States and Europe.
No, it is not the Jews trying to control the world. That lovely red herring to confuse those on 4rww blog and other places.

Posted by Barry at August 23, 2003 3:50 AM

Total genocide may be a bit of overkill but a measured response may be just the solution, which I have advocated for a long time. That would be to launch an equal number of missiles or bombs against populated areas in Gaza and the West Bank for each Israeli killed or injured by terror, perhaps accompanied by pictures of Israelis dancing in the street afterwards... One cannot argue logically with closed minds. Only superior force will convince the terrorists to cease and desist.

Posted by irving bersak at August 23, 2003 3:55 AM

Fantastic!

Posted by Mike at August 23, 2003 5:35 AM

Mail a copy to George Bush immediately.
Harold

Posted by Harold Simon at August 23, 2003 7:18 AM

Night after night I watch Fox News and see "experts" on the Middle East (mostly ex-State Department types) simply assert that abandoning the "Road Map" would be calamitous for both Isreal and the Palestinians -- this, with NO challange from the interviewer (be he Hume, Snow, Hannity, Colmes, whoever). And Fox is no NYT. Apparently, this theory is so widely accepted, we should really enshrine it as an axiom. This is SO frustrating.

Why is not obvious to everyone that the quickest route to peace, democratic Palestinian institutions and a stable Palestinian state is for Israel to jam a policy like the one outlined above right up the Palestinians' collective ass?

Posted by Mountb at August 23, 2003 7:24 AM

The ideas here are rational and self-evident. The notion that Israel would "over-react" is unrealistic and counter-productive. Irrespective of the enormity of the provocation, Israel is a Jewish nation, bound by Torah to treat its enemies in a way unique to Jewish culture.

The appropriate course of action is a measured reaction to ongoing hostilities. Sharon and Bush are probably in agreement that these Arabs merit one last chance to get their act together. Now, the Israelis are going to kill or capture the leadership of the terrorist bands. If, in the end, that includes Arafat and his current assistants, so be it.

I really believe, with the strongest personal conviction, that when Jews, when all people, act in ways that are holy, the will of Hashem will in the end prevail.

Posted by Steve at August 23, 2003 8:00 AM

The ideas here are rational and self-evident. The notion that Israel would "over-react" is unrealistic and counter-productive. Irrespective of the enormity of the provocation, Israel is a Jewish nation, bound by Torah to treat its enemies in a way unique to Jewish culture.

The appropriate course of action is a measured reaction to ongoing hostilities. Sharon and Bush are probably in agreement that these Arabs merit one last chance to get their act together. Now, the Israelis are going to kill or capture the leadership of the terrorist bands. If, in the end, that includes Arafat and his current assistants, so be it.

I really believe, with the strongest personal conviction, that when Jews, when all people, act in ways that are holy, the will of Hashem will in the end prevail.

Posted by Steve at August 23, 2003 8:00 AM

Clear, concise and to the point.
No apologies needed.
This should have been done long ago.
The warriors of Israel need to wake up and lead their nation back into a realm of security.

Posted by Megs at August 23, 2003 9:07 AM

It may, on some level, be emotionally satisfying to threaten the Palestinians with genocide, but is it moral? or even necessary? Roger has the right idea: finish the wall,wall the out, and wait for another generation.
One could argue "if only"s endlessly.
If only we had driven all of them east of the Jordan in 67 or 73. If only the world had insisted that a Palestinian state be established during the years that Jordan controlled the West Bank and Egypt controlled Gaza. If only.

Posted by Mike Reynolds at August 23, 2003 9:40 AM

Brilliantly put. I would leave out the bit at the very end about genocide but brilliant.

Posted by Dom at August 23, 2003 5:32 PM

From your pen to Gods ears and into reality!! - Amen.

Posted by eli cohen at August 23, 2003 7:45 PM

Steve is of course right. Entirely correct, ethically unassailable. On the other hand (leaving the right hand holding the Torah (in a lightweight edition)), it seems perfectly legitimate to terminate with maximum prejudice a certain number of terrorists as well as any such people who are clearly identified as being “accessories before the fact”. This would likely include all members of the PA “management” above tea maker. It is also perfectly acceptable for such operations to accept that collateral damage is also sadly inevitable.

There is also an old British tradition (from the time of the Indian rebellions) which could be applied, and that is burying all recovered former “terrorist combatants” sewn into a pigskin. This would be particularly appropriate for those finding “religious justification” for their actions, and perhaps Mr Yasin of Hamas and his close friends would be best thus processed first. If there is felt to be some danger of their being unearthed by their “saintly followers”, then perhaps cremation wrapped in pig skin would provide an appropriate solution. The large supply of such skins required could be purchased from the stock of the EU’s farming support system. As a variation of the old British scheme, some bodies could be stuffed with pig parts (or splendid British pork sausages) rather than sown into (expensive) skins.

Posted by Jon at August 24, 2003 3:47 AM

Sign it, ship it. FEDEX overnight.

Posted by Patrick at August 24, 2003 10:51 AM

Genocide is a bit much.

I think the fence is a better idea. Put it in place, close it, and let the Palestinians stew in their own juices. If the Israeli's need labor, bring it in from India or some other country full of peaceful workers... after all, that's what Kuwait does!

And make sure that anyplace that has a mortar or rocket launched from it be hit by a large amount of counter-battery fire immediately (within seconds), with no regard for whether it is in the middle of a town. The Israeli's have that capability.

Oh, and the other appropriate thing would be to kill Arafat ASAP. The Palestinians would go nuts, providing plenty of targets.

Posted by John Moore (Useful Fools) at August 24, 2003 12:15 PM

Great stuff. For a moment I actually thought that this was true and not a satire. I wish that Israel really did this. I agree with the poster who earleir said that the fence has to be finished and Israel should wait until a saner generation of Palestinians willa ris. In th emeantime, Arabs out of ISrael proper.

Posted by Joel at August 24, 2003 1:22 PM

Minor Point - To move against the West Bank, the Israelis would need to move east (the west bank of the Jordan River being on Israels eastern border)

Other than that, sounds perfect.

End the (Palestinian) Occupation (of Israel)

Posted by Andrew at August 24, 2003 7:36 PM

Actions have consequences for both sides. As the fence is completed, expect the Palis to go back to rocket attacks like they did from Lebanon and the Golan for many years. Of course it is hard to maintain the fiction of government uninvolvement with rocket attacks.

I would map and number a grid, and as each terrorist attack takes a life, that life would forever justify the taking of the land in grid square number one from the Pali authority and evicting the current residents. Yes, the folks evicted will be angry, but perhaps a bit angry at the terrorists too. I submit Hebron as grid number 1, but the dome of the Rock would do too.

The joint ain't that big, another couple of attacks like the present one and the Pali issue would be solved. Then Israel could start with Lebanon Syria or Jordan.

Posted by Don Meaker at August 24, 2003 8:11 PM

When the Jews returned to Israel from Egypt, God ordered Moses to kick out the people who have moved into their country since they left. God warns, if you do not kick them out, "they will be like needles in your eyes."

There is age old wisdom in this advice. You cannot expect your enemy to have anything but contempt for their vanquishers. The Arabs must be completely vanquished. They must be crushed entirely. Any negotiations with them will be futile.

However, if Israel crushes them, they will have nothing but respect, fear and admiration for the Jews. It is Israel's capitulation and weak negotiation which brings out the needles aimed at their eyes.

The enemy believes that Israel is negotiating because they are collapsing.

If Israel wishes to survive it must extirpate the terror cells completely, kill their leaders and send all the Arabs back to their countries of origin east of the Jordan River.

There has NEVER been an Arab country called "Palestine" and there should be one. It throws everything out of balance.

There are twenty-two Arab countries. If the Arabs do not like living under Jewish domain, I advise they m,ove back to their countries.

Posted by Aaron S. at August 24, 2003 9:59 PM

It'll never happen. In any case, the appropriate response for Israel has long been "transfer," but that policy is politically unacceptable at this point. I shudder to think about the kind of atrocity the Palestinians would have to commit to get Israel to go through with the divorce and throw the Palestinian bums out of their house.

Posted by BarCodeKing at August 25, 2003 7:48 AM

The 'fence' is merely an admittance of failure, a failure to act, a failure to admit reality. Do those of you recommending it actually think that a "new generation of sane Palestinians" will EVER arise? Due only to a fence which merely forstalls a solution and perpetuates the status quo?

As long as Hamas, Islamic Jihad and the Pali 'Authority are allowed to exist, each generation will grow up indoctrinated with the current psychosis and thoroughly innoculated against truth or social evolution. They have made a cult of death. They should be accomodated.

Jon, Imperial Hunter

Posted by Jon, Imperial Hunter at August 25, 2003 10:37 AM

'admission' not admittance *blush*

Jon. Imperial Hunter

Posted by Jon, Imperial Hunter at August 25, 2003 10:39 AM

Bravo! Eliminating the Palestinians would graphically demonstrate why weaker states and peoples MUST adhere to the Rules of War in their own self-interest. The Rules of War permit international conflicts, or internal conflicts, to be settled by force without the complete destruction of the losing side. Violating the Rules of War as part of a deliberate strategy by the weaker side in a conflict is only a viable strategy as long as the stronger side is willing to tolerate it. Once the stronger side decides to abandon the Rules of War also, all the advantages gained by the weaker side's violations disappear and its disadvantages are magnified.

The Palestinians are deliberately targeting Israeli civilians in a form of asymmetric warfare because they have been unable to defeat the Israeli military. They are only able to continue to do this because Israel has been unwilling to attack the Palestinian civilian population. And so, Israel accepts the death of a thousand cuts rather than destroy the Palestinian population that actively supports the terrorists.

The Palestinians are waging a genocidal war against the Israelis on the retail installment plan. It's time for Israel to respond with wholesale attacks on the Palestinians and destroy this terrorist tribe.

Posted by James Jones at August 25, 2003 3:50 PM

If only the government of Israel would have the courage to take such a step.

Max Abrahamson

Posted by Max Abrahamson at August 26, 2003 1:02 AM

In other words, in the interest of Israel's "Never Again" anti-genocide policy, the Israeli People wish to commit a genocide in order to "eliminate" the Palestinians - the final solution.

GO RIGHT AHEAD. History will remember. God will judge.

Posted by Palestinian Child at August 26, 2003 2:16 AM

Minus the genocide comment (I understand clearly what the writer is getting at, but too many - namely, liberals whose religion IS liberalism - would reject the validity of the letter based on that sentence alone), something to this effect really needs to be done, and it should've been done already, years ago.

Unfortunately, I have zero faith that anything like this will even happen.

I figured that when Oslo I began (the Roadmap being Oslo II), that what this letter states would've been the ultimate outcome once Israel realized that Arafat & his kind would never settle for anything less that Israel's extinction (as repeatedly stated right Arafat's own mouth, even the day he agreed to Oslo at the White House in '93). Much to my dismay, their response to the second Intifada was extremely muted. Moreover, more to my dismay, they didn't react immediately to the violations of Oslo.

Look, let's face it. Nearly every pro-Israel supporter in & beyond the land of Israel would've been ecstatic if giving the Palestinians a country of their own in Gaza, Judea & Samaria would've resulted in peace. Unfortunately, that is not, nor will it ever be what they truly want. Hence, what other solution is there?

Well, here's one...

I think ultimately, Israel needs to create an agency whos focus is to transferring the Palestinians out of Judea & Samaria into their favorite Arab land of choice (minus Israel), involving compensation for their homes & jobs, which in turn would be used in part for rellocating them. There's plenty of places to choose from (about 22 countries), so their options are far from limited. Heck, why not even throw in some European nations as well (like France & Germany), since they're so concerned with the general welfare of Palestinians.

As for those Palestinians who truly aren't threats to Israel (like those who get killed by the PA, Hamas, Jihad, etc..., when they speak out openly of co-existing with Israel), arrangements could be made to keep them where they are, if that's what they'd prefer.

As for those Palestinians that refuse to work with this hypothetical agency? Well, what other choice is there?

Posted by J. Scotte Barkan at August 26, 2003 5:49 AM

Ahh, if only.

I've visited Israel and have seen the enormous amount of work that the Palastinians do in that country. I saw lots and lots of Israelis on their cell phones but not many carrying loads of concrete. Keeping these people out of the country is going to require a big change in attitude. On TV we see marches in the streets in the West Bank and Gaza, and it's disgusting but these nutjobs aren't the majority and the Palastinians that do want peace know they will be killed if they speak out. So build this fence and keep the infiltrators out. It's just not going to work with the dedicated wackos who will find some way into Israel. Sad as it is, Israel must go into these festering wounds and kill every last one of the Islamofacists, and it's sad because a lot of innocent Palastinians will die. There can be no peace until there in an outright victor, a no doubt about it winner.

As for world opinion, eff 'em. If a bunch of Indians were to make claims on a piece of Minnesota and blew up a shopping mall or a school bus, do you think the federal government would give a rat's ass what France! would have to say after the army was sent in to IMMEDIATELY kill every last one of them. How we can ask less of Israel is beyond me.

Posted by MM at August 26, 2003 6:27 AM

Letters of intention are not redeemable. Deeds, actions and facts are evidence beyond intention.
Until when?
Emanuel

Posted by Emanuel at August 26, 2003 4:32 PM

For the record, I'd like to say that due to comments here and elsewhere, I've altered the last sentence in the current version of this memo to:"Remember, in the final analysis, we are a people with no little experience in stunning victories."

My thanks to people here and elsewhere for helping me to see a better way to say what I wanted to say.

This memo has been picked up by Isreal National News

Posted by vanderleun at August 28, 2003 11:37 AM

You proposed that after giving one final, clear warning, if one more Palestinian suicide-bombs Israelis, the latter should kill every Palestinian, without exception.

At first I thought this might be satire, but it seems the author was actually serious. And the responses to the piece are even more telling. For example,

"It is also perfectly acceptable for such operations to accept that
collateral damage is also sadly inevitable."

Now, where have we heard this before? Oh, yeah, that's it: From fanatical Hamas and Hezballah wackos.

In essence, such 'reasoning' shakes out like this:
"1. The only thing 'those people' understand is *force*;
2. The fact that they're still blowing themselves up at bus stops obviously means Israel hasn't used enough force on them yet;
3. Clearly the solution is to use helicopters to fire a few more missiles into traffic jams. Yeah, that'll convince 'em!"


While most people obviously sympathize with those who've lost loved ones or friends to suicide bombers, surely I can't be the only person who sees the problem with such reasoning.

Another commenter writes:

"You cannot expect your enemy to have anything but contempt
for their vanquishers. The Arabs must be completely vanquished.
They must be crushed entirely. Any negotiations with them will
be futile.

"However, if Israel crushes them, they will have nothing but
respect, fear and admiration for the Jews. It is Israel's
capitulation and weak negotiation which brings out the needles
aimed at their eyes.

"If Israel wishes to survive it must extirpate the terror cells
completely, kill their leaders and send all the Arabs back to
their countries of origin east of the Jordan River."

Let's see if I'm understanding this right: 'Crush them' completely and they'll fear and respect you. Conversely, negotiation equals capitulation and weakness. Is this what you're claiming?

Again, one can sympathize with Israeli victims and still see the fatal flaw here: As seductive as it may seem to extremists to simply "kill 'em all", for all practical purposes that's impossible. So you're left with the remaining choices: Fire even *more* missiles into traffic jams (thus, more of the status quo), or...try something else. Something radically new.

Someone defined insanity as doing the same thing over and over but expecting a different outcome. Does *anyone* on this page think that firing missiles into stalled traffic, bulldozing homes, uprooting orange groves or beating prisoners is *not* producing more recruits for Hamas et al? Do you truly believe it's possible to *scare* people into abandoning terrorist organizations by threatening to kill them?

Does your answer change if they've already demonstrated a willingness to *voluntarily* commit suicide?

Again--for the third time--I grieve deeply for Israelis who have lost loved ones in the suicide bombings. Would that we could undo what has been done. Since that seems impossible, one looks to how to avoid such losses in the future. And the current modus operandi of the Israeli government/military doesn't seem to be getting anywhere.

Just an observation.

Posted by steve f at August 28, 2003 4:14 PM

The Bible says that you must ask for peace 3 times with your enemy. We have already asked them dozens of times. It's time to do as the Bible says "Whoever comes to kill you, kill him first", and with maximum prejudice.

Posted by Dudy at August 29, 2003 6:42 PM

You smug American Zionists should listen to those that live there.

http://www.forward.com/issues/2003/03.08.29/oped3.html

A Failed Israeli Society Collapses While Its Leaders Remain Silent

The Zionist revolution has always rested on two pillars: a just path and an ethical leadership. Neither of these is operative any longer. The Israeli nation today rests on a scaffolding of corruption, and on foundations of oppression and injustice. As such, the end of the Zionist enterprise is already on our doorstep. There is a real chance that ours will be the last Zionist generation. There may yet be a Jewish state here, but it will be a different sort, strange and ugly.

There is time to change course, but not much. What is needed is a new vision of a just society and the political will to implement it. Nor is this merely an internal Israeli affair. Diaspora Jews for whom Israel is a central pillar of their identity must pay heed and speak out. If the pillar collapses, the upper floors will come crashing down.

The opposition does not exist, and the coalition, with Arik Sharon at its head, claims the right to remain silent. In a nation of chatterboxes, everyone has suddenly fallen dumb, because there's nothing left to say. We live in a thunderously failed reality. Yes, we have revived the Hebrew language, created a marvelous theater and a strong national currency. Our Jewish minds are as sharp as ever. We are traded on the Nasdaq. But is this why we created a state? The Jewish people did not survive for two millennia in order to pioneer new weaponry, computer security programs or anti-missile missiles. We were supposed to be a light unto the nations. In this we have failed.

It turns out that the 2,000-year struggle for Jewish survival comes down to a state of settlements, run by an amoral clique of corrupt lawbreakers who are deaf both to their citizens and to their enemies. A state lacking justice cannot survive. More and more Israelis are coming to understand this as they ask their children where they expect to live in 25 years. Children who are honest admit, to their parents' shock, that they do not know. The countdown to the end of Israeli society has begun.

It is very comfortable to be a Zionist in West Bank settlements such as Beit El and Ofra. The biblical landscape is charming. From the window you can gaze through the geraniums and bougainvilleas and not see the occupation. Traveling on the fast highway ›hat takes you from Ramot on Jerusalem's northern edge to Gilo on the southern edge, a 12-minute trip that skirts barely a half-mile west of the Palestinian roadblocks, it's hard to comprehend the humiliating experience of the despised Arab who must creep for hours along the pocked, blockaded roads assigned to him. One road for the occupier, one road for the occupied.

This cannot work. Even if the Arabs lower their heads and swallow their shame and anger forever, it won't work. A structure built on human callousness will inevitably collapse in on itself. Note this moment well: Zionism's superstructure is already collapsing like a cheap Jerusalem wedding hall. Only madmen continue dancing on the top floor while the pillars below are collapsing.

We have grown accustomed to ignoring the suffering of the women at the roadblocks. No wonder we don't hear the cries of the abused woman living next door or the single mother struggling to support her children in dignity. We don't even bother to count the women murdered by their husbands.

Israel, having ceased to care about the children of the Palestinians, should not be surprised when they come washed in hatred and blow themselves up in the centers of Israeli escapism. They consign themselves to Allah in our places of recreation, because their own lives are torture. They spill their own blood in our restaurants in order to ruin our appetites, because they have children and parents at home who are hungry and humiliated.

We could kill a thousand ringleaders and engineers a day and nothing will be solved, because the leaders come up from below — from the wells of hatred and anger, from the "infrastructures" of injustice and moral corruption.

If all this were inevitable, divinely ordained and immutable, I would be silent. But things could be different, and so crying out is a moral imperative.

Here is what the prime minister should say to the people:

The time for illusions is over. The time for decisions has arrived. We love the entire land of our forefathers and in some other time we would have wanted to live here alone. But that will not happen. The Arabs, too, have dreams and needs.

Between the Jordan and the Mediterranean there is no longer a clear Jewish majority. And so, fellow citizens, it is not possible to keep the whole thing without paying a price. We cannot keep a Palestinian majority under an Israeli boot and at the same time think ourselves the only democracy in the Middle East. There cannot be democracy without equal rights for all who live here, Arab as well as Jew. We cannot keep the territories and preserve a Jewish majority in the world's only Jewish state — not by means that are humane and moral and Jewish.

Do you want the greater Land of Israel? No problem. Abandon democracy. Let's institute an efficient system of racial separation here, with prison camps and detention villages. Qalqilya Ghetto and Gulag Jenin.

Do you want a Jewish majority? No problem. Either put the Arabs on railway cars, buses, camels and donkeys and expel them en masse — or separate ourselves from them absolutely, without tricks and gimmicks. There is no middle path. We must remove all the settlements — all of them — and draw an internationally recognized border between the Jewish national home and the Palestinian national home. The Jewish Law of Return will apply only within our national home, and their right of return will apply only within the borders of the Palestinian state.

Do you want democracy? No problem. Either abandon the greater Land of Israel, to the last settlement and outpost, or give full citizenship and voting rights to everyone, including Arabs. The result, of course, will be that those who did not want a Palestinian state alongside us will have one in our midst, via the ballot box.

That's what the prime minister should say to the people. He should present the choices forthrightly: Jewish racialism or democracy. Settlements or hope for both peoples. False visions of barbed wire, roadblocks and suicide bombers, or a recognized international border between two states and a shared capital in Jerusalem.

But there is no prime minister in Jerusalem. The disease eating away at the body of Zionism has already attacked the head. David Ben-Gurion sometimes erred, but he remained straight as an arrow. When Menachem Begin was wrong, nobody impugned his motives. No longer. Polls published last weekend showed that a majority of Israelis do not believe in the personal integrity of the prime minister — yet they trust his political leadership. In other words, Israel's current prime minister personally embodies both halves of the curse: suspect personal morals and open disregard for the law — combined with the brutality of occupation and the trampling of any chance for peace. This is our nation, these its leaders. The inescapable conclusion is that the Zionist revolution is dead.

Why, then, is the opposition so quiet? Perhaps because it's summer, or because they are tired, or because some would like to join the government at any price, even the price of participating in the sickness. But while they dither, the forces of good lose hope.

This is the time for clear alternatives. Anyone who declines to present a clear-cut position — black or white — is in effect collaborating in the decline. It is not a matter of Labor versus Likud or right versus left, but of right versus wrong, acceptable versus unacceptable. The law-abiding versus the lawbreakers. What's needed is not a political replacement for the Sharon government but a vision of hope, an alternative to the destruction of Zionism and its values by the deaf, dumb and callous.

Israel's friends abroad — Jewish and non-Jewish alike, presidents and prime ministers, rabbis and lay people — should choose as well. They must reach out and help Israel to navigate the road map toward our national destiny as a light unto the nations and a society of peace, justice and equality.

Translated by J.J. Goldberg.

Avraham Burg was speaker of Israel's Knesset from 1999 to 2003 and is a former chairman of the Jewish Agency for Israel. He is currently a Labor Party Knesset member. This essay is adapted by the author from an article that appeared in Yediot Aharonot.

Posted by J. Spring at August 30, 2003 12:39 AM

Quote:

"We were supposed to be a light unto the nations. In this we have failed. "

It's shocking to see a statement of such staggering stupidity from the mouth of an influential politician.

The day a majority of Israelis think like him is the day Israel falls without a single shot being fired.

Being "a light unto the nations" does not entail meekly submitting to your own extinction. Taking self-defensive measures -- including violent action -- INCLUDING KILLING PEOPLE -- is a basic human right for individuals, and a paramount duty for a state obliged to protect its citizens.

That ought to be a no-brainer. There should not even be a discussion over this. It worries me deeply that Mr. Burg has capitulated to "world opinion" in the misguided hope that anything good will come from such surrender.

"World opinion" in its majority is either outright anti-Israel or does not give a damn for the survival of Israel. Nothing good can come from appeasing people who either want you dead or will coldly stand by doing nothing as you are being killed.

Having said that, I also want to say that I disagree equally with the suggestion that genocide of Palestinians is the solution. Collateral damage -- unintended killing of bystanders -- is one thing (and the IDF is unmatched in its efforts to prevent such incidents); indiscriminate killing of a populace is something altogether different, and must be rejected.

Posted by tictoc at August 30, 2003 4:59 PM

The author does not say about genocid of palestinians (also, I can not even agree that term "palestinian" has anything to do exclusively with arab population of Palestine). He just says, those who start the war and murder must accept the consiquences. It is WAR. WAR. And this war was started NOT BY ISRAEL. And I want Israel to win this war. Now, stop obusing the word "genocide". If somebody is performning genocide today, it is arabs against jews with silent or open support of so-called "world community". Also, remember WWII - if allies would not bomb german cities, who knows what outcome of the war would be. At least, there is a note here, that says: either live in Peace (genocide????), or pack and leave (genocide???), or fight and die.

Posted by Marina at September 2, 2003 3:32 PM

Republished on the advent of the withdrawal from Gaza -- September, 2005.

Posted by Gerard Van Der Leun at September 11, 2005 10:06 AM

"The Arabs must be completely vanquished. They must be crushed entirely. Any negotiations with them will be futile."(?) Who are you people?? The sad thing is that the Israeli's are commiting similar atrocities to another people (the Palestinians) that were committed to them. It should read 'Never Again, to Us but everybody else is OK'.

On another note: you to want to 'end the (Palestinaian) occupation of (Israel)' check your history books please, Israel WAS Palestine. It was given to them by an international tribunal in 1948...but nobody asked what the Palestinians thought of the idea...thus the problems we see today. Learn more here:
http://www.ifamericansknew.org

And finally Palestinians don't want to kill Jews, that's Zionist paranoia...Palestinians just want their country back!

For a country founded on Judaism, Israel seems is being anything but spiritual.

Posted by Zak at September 14, 2005 9:49 AM

And finally Palestinians don't want to kill Jews, that's Zionist paranoia

Oh really? So all those suicide vests packed with nails, car bombs, and rocket attacks were just accidents?

For a group of people who "don't want to kill Jews", they sure are doing an awful lot of killing.

Posted by The Unbeliever at September 15, 2005 2:54 PM

"Conversely, negotiation equals capitulation and weakness. Is this what you're claiming?"

I think the point is that when negotiation is done in good faith only by one side, and concessions are met with more violence and more chaos, perhaps the Israelis should rethink the efficacy of negotiation.

Certainly none of their concessions has bought them any goodwill in the capitals of Europe, to say nothing of the Arab/Islamic world. Nor has it brought them any particular safety within their own borders.

Posted by Steve in Houston at September 15, 2005 5:05 PM

coz theres no such thing nor will be

Posted by moshi cohen at September 16, 2005 10:05 AM

u all know it
u lie n belive ur own lie
leave the palestinians alone

Posted by kj at September 16, 2005 10:06 AM

It's interesting how many people either don't get it, or won't get it. The Palestinians don't want peace, they want corpses. They want a Juden frei Palestine and they'll do anything to get it. It means exterminating Jews around the world, then they'll exterminate Jews around the world. We have people here who either want to see Judaism become extinct or, even worse, refuse to acknowledge that that is what other people want.

Yo, Israel! You're not going to make them love you, and they're not about to respect you. That being the case, make them fear you. Make the anger of the Jew a byword in the Arab world, and damn the bigots and bozos in the western world. Let the word go forth from Djakarta to Rabat, it is death to anger the Jew.

And to those who quiver, quail, and shit your pants at the thought of murder and violence; deny anyone their right to defend themselves to any degree, and you will not be able to sleep twice in the same place. It is now a time of war, and peace can only come when the appeaser and the timid learn that they cannot control everything.

Posted by Alan Kellogg at June 7, 2007 12:52 AM

The whole thing is a joke anyway. If Israel was serious they would line up a few hundred artillery pieces along the West Bank and Gaza and announce that the next time a suicide bombing or rocket attack is attempted, the artillery will open up for an hour or so. The initial reaction of the Palestinians will be an immense rage and they will undoubtedly come up with some mass murder scheme. Then you open up the artillery for two hours, etc. They will either get the message or they will perish. Israel has not and will not do this since they suffer the "Western guilt" just as much as the rest of us.

Posted by Barnabus at June 7, 2007 2:18 PM

The end of this conflict will come in thunder and starfire. It can't come soon enough.

The central pillar of Islam is to bow to a rock in prayer five times per day - what happens when the rock is a puddle of glowing glass?

Posted by Fletcher Christian at June 7, 2007 4:23 PM

I don't know if this person "Posted by: J. Spring at August 30, 2003 12:39 AM" is around to read some more with respect to the Avraham Burg article he cites:

Now
"Leaving the Zionist ghetto"
http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/868385.html

is a call to abandon all, a negation of "Memo from Israel ..."

Posted by Cynic at June 10, 2007 7:11 AM

You know how to get rid of a rat problem? You have to exterminate every single rat.

Posted by Murphy Klasing at March 6, 2008 2:24 PM

What a bunch of fascists. The sooner the zionist state of israel is gone the better for the world. Those arrogant Ashkenazi have no real claim on that land anyways. And all you supporters of that false state can take your duel loyalties and move there and stop screwing with this country. You are the real traitors.

Posted by heyyou at March 7, 2008 9:24 AM

Sigh... It's "dual loyalties," Dude.

But an acceptable, if stupidly made, pun.

Posted by vanderleun at March 7, 2008 10:33 AM

Gerard, I once wrote a story about exactly that sort of shift in attitude -- though by an American president, not an Israeli administration. Since then I've come to believe that the free world's political class has devolved too far into mere power-and-perquisite-seeking ever to reach the degree of clarity and anger required to produce such a response.

God help us all.

Posted by Francis W. Porretto at March 7, 2008 1:49 PM

As well written *and thought out)as your "letter" is, sadly I have to agree with the good Mr. Porretto. Save for a miracle, our collective free world leaders have neither the intestinal fortitude or mental clarity to write let alone carry out the actions your letter would suggest.

God help us all (and as quickly as possible).

Posted by Guy S at March 8, 2008 2:50 PM

Lovely Post! There is no us under a UN mandated human rights concept. There is your side fighting for your people and ours fighting for ours. You should take care of you. If you do not, leave us out of your mess. If you do not . . .

Oh but the entire West would realize this. We try to lend neutral good offices to all discussions. Meanwhile the Muslims realize who their people are on their side; they are culturist. We need to be culturists too.

Multiculturalists are wrong. We have a core culture. We have a side. Culturism is natural. Your article states the existence of sides calmly and cooly. Thanks!!!

www.culturism.us

Posted by Culturist John at December 29, 2008 3:49 PM

"And finally Palestinians don't want to kill Jews, that's Zionist paranoia...Palestinians just want their country back!"

Those clever Jews, getting so many Muslims to spout Zionist propaganda.

Posted by pst314 at December 29, 2008 4:05 PM

"Those arrogant Ashkenazi have no real claim on that land anyway"

After a thousand years of KKK-like Muslim supremacism, no thank you. Funny how Muslims have religious freedom in Israel but not Jews in Muslim-dominated nations. (Not to mention oppression of Christians and other non-Muslims.)

Posted by pst314 at December 29, 2008 4:12 PM

The fact that millions of Palestinians refugees crowd together in squalor and yet they are hardly invited in by Arab neighbors who must constantly import vast labor pools from India, Philippines, etc., should tell us something. [This point was made by an earlier commenter].

We see what the Jordanians thought of their violent antics after one of the first airline highjacking in the 1970s-- passengers OK but Palestinian terrorists shredded nonetheless. Then the Jordanians went to those neighborhoods they knew to be home to the terrorists and their cohorts and wiped a good many of them out, about 2000 or so dead. Many seem to have forgotten this early installment of Palestinian comportment-- and the response from their Arab brothers.

The gentleman's point above about the hard working Palestinians he has observed in Israel notwithstanding, is there not a discernible pattern here?

Jews in Israel: forsaken and scorned by many yet industrious lovers of life.

Palestinians in Israel: forsaken and scorned by many, and industrious lovers of death.

Posted by Hannon at December 29, 2008 6:12 PM

Since I don't touch type, please bear with me while I do a little editing;

Dear Neighbors:

Shape up or ship out.

Signed

Israel

Posted by Glenn at December 30, 2008 10:05 AM

Quite a few leftist enablers of the Hitlers in headscarves commenting back in the day. Unfortunately they elected the spineless Quisling who has pushed the middle east to the brink of total war. My bet is on Israel and her God versus the Arabs and their father the devil.

Posted by bill at September 22, 2011 12:43 PM

Will work if and only if people of Israel have the will to exterminate the Palestinians for to win a war, one must defeat enemy army, occupy his country, and control his people. They must exterminate to win because they cannot occupy and control (last 50 years proves latter 2 conditions). They must also invade Egypt, Jordan and Lebanon to exterminate the millions of Palestinian refuges held in camps. Do they have the will and military capability (non-nuclear) to invade sovereign nations? Do they have the will to exterminate? Do we have the will to let them? Does anyone?

Posted by at September 22, 2011 1:46 PM

"Do they have the will to exterminate? Do we have the will to let them? Does anyone?"

I do not think Judeo-Christians can wholesale go for extermination of any people. Muslims, otoh, have a long history of doing just that.

I do think that Islam should be banned.

Banned, banned, banned.

It is a death cult and its books and artifacts should suffer the very fate that the muslims have bestowed upon the previous civilizations they consumed (minus the slaughter and violence).

If they try to practice their sharia, we then should practice our laws: Beheading someone for adutlery, Honor Killings, & Hanging of homosexuals would be considered murder and all perpetrators of such will be prosecuted fully under Western Law (Hey, we did it with the Hindu ritual of burning widows alive, we can do it with the Death Cult called 'Islam').

Anyone who serves as a Mullah or preaches Sharia law should be prosecuted and do prison time - addition punitive time for recidivists.

The only Qurans that survive should be in dusty archives at museums. They should be heavily footnote with the history of the slaughter and enslavements of others so that its obvious that this malevolent ideolgy remains in the past.

Ultimately... it should be banned. Banned. Banned. Banned.

Posted by Cond0010 at September 22, 2011 10:54 PM

If there is in fact a termination I don't think there will be a warning letter.

Posted by glenn at September 25, 2011 4:03 PM

Peace come from God.israel-palestine conflict is a prophecy&must come to pass.no amount of hatred wil b panacea of peace!

Posted by Charles at September 26, 2011 6:28 PM

i
i
i

Posted by replicac72658 at September 26, 2011 8:04 PM

As I just commented elsewhere, the longer it goes on without resolution, the more savage it gets. Don't invite open war unless you are prepared to go to any length, or to lose it all.

Posted by John A. Fleming at November 19, 2012 12:19 PM

We already have a two state solution, it's called Israel and Jordan. Empty any area from which missiles have been fired into Israel. Missiles don't fire themselves.

Posted by Scott M at November 19, 2012 1:16 PM

This could cause them to grow less, flower less,
and maybe even die. Wood chips: This material contains bark, and wood of
various sizes. Grass clippings are full of nitrogen and break down quickly.

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Posted by Sheree at May 16, 2013 5:15 PM
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